Whats more: In a family with members who prefer different temperatures, zoning makes it so that everyone can get through the winter comfortably. in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net, This official sponsor may provide discounts to registered members. 25% more in the 1950s house and 10% more in the modern house. Would it by fine to just clip this wire, and lose heat to the one panel? Still have continuity and 30 minutes later the room is nice and warm. Thus convective heating systems typically respond slower especially to step (temperature) From above heating feels very,good on a cold terrace though, The floor keeps in between 21c and 27c In the older form, electric heating elements are sandwiched between a layer of drywall and a layer of plaster. Fires around the building fed heat into these hypocausts, which in turn heated the interior spaces of the home. I'm going to look him up and call him to ask his opinion. In part, radiant excels in efficiency because, unlike forced-air systems with imperfect ductwork,the former isnt vulnerable to heat loss. 215 Year Old House - Wide Board Attic Refinishing. Bedrooms are so comfortable at times it is not even necessary to turn on heat in those rooms unless temperatures become extremely frigid. One of the rooms heating has gone out. In the United States, it was none other than the distinguished architect Frank Lloyd Wright who first introduced the concept of radiant heating to countless Americans. 1st floor and 3rd floor. This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by Untold Media. ( still feels 10 times less air movement that in our prior central heated house ) It appears the wires are embedded in the drywall. * * * Do some research on how the systems work. (I don't know what they were thinking!) I hope more people return and share information. In one of our more recent design/build radiant systems we radiated the slab in the basement and the ceiling for the main floor at the same design water temperature - 110F ,which of course modulates with outdoor air temperatures having an average design water temperature made for heat pump or condensing boiler. Certainly, the basic technology offers efficiency advantages, but individual system components make a big difference too. I understand where you're coming from - it's a very common belief that you can equate a therm with the equivalent kilowatt and just multiply the costs to get a comparative answer, the truth is you simply can't. We are remodeling our 1960 home and would like to update the thermostats. ( electrical,wire is buried at the bottom, would preferred a mid slab but it was to complex to install that way). Be open to learning. Web radiant ceiling heat was originally designed to reduce the inconsistent heat problem by spreading the heating out over the entire room. Ingeniously, hydronic tubes were set into the concrete flooring. To still use my ceiling heat. The hardware of this device is mounted over the head making it very practical for homeowner living in small houses. On the bottom of page 5 you will see that it says "Buildings with hydronic heating systems have consistently shown lower heating energy use than equivalent structures with forced-air heating systems.". Every room has its own thermostat and dedicated circuits Here in heat-pump country we learned a long time ago that low-velocity high-volume systems are the way to go, and they make for a great, easy to manage background system. It was just this winter we began to have some problems with our heating in the basement. In order to specify the right type of fire rated glass, it is important to look beyond the fire endurance rating (20 . The most practical thing for homeowner is to use radiant heaters to heat the ceiling mounts. worst heating ever and super inefficient. It is the MOST efficient form of electric heat. You posted a similar comment on this page on Feb. 9, 2012. How is the electric service run to the grid? In a well insulated home with the proper number of panels per the home heat loss . Please cite a paper or study supporting your theory; I've never read one. What would cause cracking sounds with electric ceiling heat? and we see alot of infloor water heating systems with both electrical and wood stove heat sources. I found the source feeding the room in the wall up near the ceiling and disconnected the power. I wasnt able to find much at all about this company. There may be no such thing as a perfect system, but, hey, its 2015: You deserve heating that operates efficiently to create consistent comfort. - Answered by a verified HVAC Technician. 1970's retro fit rear car window heater built in, thick visible tracks) are fragile and easily damaged. Believe it or not coal and hot water heat did not effect the respiratory but forced air is a respiratory nightmare. To get the most out of radiant ceiling heat, it's recommended that the system be installed on flat ceilings that are between 8 and 12 feet high. 2. I think the heating coils are under the popcorn ceiling but no history on the heating system was left by former owner. Let dry for a couple days before you use the heat. All rooms used or a few not? The electric radiant mats have VERY low distribution losses (a few percent, mostly in the line to low volage conversion electronics). Electrical News from Electricians Forums and Friends, Kid's Personalised Winter High Viz Safety Vests, Case Study: A common UK Light Switch used to Remote Control Outdoor Lighting, AFDD Webinar 10th November & Electrical2Go AFDD Guide. In most of the country, we can't afford to use electric resistance heat. Hi, my home was built in 1966, and I have ceiling radiant heat. Here's a brief study of assessing clains of lower thermostat settings in hones with radiant floor heat done by CMHC http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/publications/en/rh-pr/tech/01-106-e.html, They found slightly higher settings in the radiant heat homes and concluded: There are many reasons for this. Water heated by the boiler could be pumped through the tubes, heating the concrete in the absence of sun. It was determined to be from ceiling heat. In an effort to improve upon radiators and space heaters, radiant ceiling heat was designed to provide consistent, even warmth. If part of the energy savings was from setback savings, is that necessarily a bad thing? Electric Radiant Ceiling Heat 1970S Qmark Radiant Ceiling Panels from homeconceptaero.blogspot.com Ceiling heat from 1964 in Maryland. We have electric radiant heat in our ceilings in a ranch house built in the late 1960s by my uncle. . and come in direct contact with combustible materials. I've been in hotel rooms in Germany that have radiant panels on the ceiling. They had full heat sheets, half heat sheets, and 1/3 heat sheets. When the delivery systems are similar a BTU is a BTU. Depending on gas and electric prices a gas furnace is likely much cheaper to run than an electric furnace, and a gas boiler is likely much cheaper to run than an electric boiler for hydronic radiant. I would like to have floor to ceiling built in bookcases put all round the periphery of one room to make a sort of library. All answers were no and i wouldn't hold him responsible if anything happened. #9. How to Install Radiant Heat Ceilings | This Old House - YouTube 0:00 / 3:19 How to Install Radiant Heat Ceilings | This Old House This Old House 1.94M subscribers 75K views 2 years ago. This said, our house has approx 5k sq ft of electrical in slab floor heating Performance. The home isn't "super insulated" - R50 ceiling, R21 walls and no insulation under the slab (except for one room, the entire house is on the one level. Then came 1907 and a British professor named A.H. Barker came up with the first real radiant heating system, the "radiant panel," which used a large surface like a floor or ceiling to radiate heat into a building's living space. Does anybody know about the panels from this company or the panels with embedded wires in general as it pertains to asbestos risk? I have a new home and it has radiant heat in ceiling that goes back to the 1950's and has black pipe as coils. This is not a high heating bill for Minneapolis. If an `incorrect` 120V(single pole) thermo was installed, but not wired correctly, it could allow continuity thru the heat elements hence still heating BUT the contacts WOULD NOT WELD TOGETHER!!!! It will not keep a consistent temperature. Floor and ceiling heat and love it. While the origins of radiant floor heating stretch way back into the mists of history, the technology has come of age only in recent years. Last season we set it to 68 and left it all season Nov-March. This was in contrast to a traditional. We like it very much. I told her it would be too hot as the day warms up. Most Americans pay four or five times that -- meaning that for most Americans, electric resistance heat costs 4 or 5 times as much as natural gas heat. For this purpose it seems to be a simple and cost effective option and adds less than $200 to our electric bill per year. Conventional systems that uses air as the transport medium has lower (maximum) potential for delivering sufficient heating/ cooling since it is limited to the thermal capacity of the air and its ability Absolutely hate it. I checked with the electrician that installed my ceiling heat He asked me some questions regarding if there had been any leaks, cracks in ceiling, or if I planned to use it for main heat source. Actually, electric radiant heat has all of the advantages of radiant heat and none of the drawbacks of convection electric heat as stated above. While that is a long time, the NAHB rates radiant ceiling panels with a 40-year life. Space heaters work in the smaller rooms, but not in the living room/dining room, which has a 14' ceiling. Since ceilings are typically constructed of gypsum based sheet rock, they offer very little resistance to thermal transfer. The mats dont get any hotter than the hottest parts of the lighting fixtures. This research area is currently underway as a multi-project research area. Radiant heat is energy-efficient and can help you save up to 15% on heating bills as the system itself is so efficient. I have no idea what sort of ceiling heat is being discussed, but when I lived in Colorado in the mid-70s, I worked for a contractor during the winter building expensive custom houses. That said, many wonder why radiant heating isnt in more American homes, especially considering its popularity abroad (in Europe and Asia, 40 and 80 percent of homes, respectively, are heated by a radiant system). Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/. I have the same issue and I dont know what it is but my electric bills are through the roof. Today, innovative systems allow homeowners to target different temperatures for different parts of the home. I need to replace my thermostats, as they don't really seem to shut off the heat. 6 Replies. Last Post 03 Feb 2009 06:25 PM by walltech. Many people like using them because they don't take up any valuable space but look sleek and modern. Channel manager at Calorique. 4. Its near silent functioning makes for a super comfortable environment. If it leaves a client without power Hi everyone, My insurance company wants to know who the manufacturer was, how can I find out, and who can I get to inspect it for safety???? ), I ve personally visited a housenwith ceiling radiant panels, andi didnt like it Anyway, if anyone near the Cleveland, OH area knows of someone who could help with our new issue in our basement sure would appreciate your contact info. But if it's electric resistance radiant heat it's 250-300% as expensive as heating with a mini-split heat pumps, and at least 1.5-2x as expensive as heating with non-modulating ducted heat pumps. A well insulated room that utilizes radiant heating systems can save money over a gas system if used and designed properly. Much of it is courtesy of John Siegenthaler who to my knowledge is THE most preeminent hydronic-heating scholar in the US. Steve, Sure enough, the wire was cut from above and you couldn't see the break from below. Navies on demand Hot Water . Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Some people prefer hot feet -- some people prefer a hot head. the ceiling was torn down with new insulation and pour barrier installed. By Michael Franco Updated Jul 25, 2017 4:13 PM. Also We need to repair one wire that the electrician cut into. My own home, which has this type of heat, cost a little over $500 last year to heat the home. (I might not have this totally right either, because this is very complex, but I am all for learning where I might be wrong. Fix cracks and skim coat entire ceiling. Air quality benefits too, since there are no dust-spreading, allergy-exacerbating ducts at play here. This system must be disconnected immediately if it hasn't already. I would also add the US Dept. The very first radiant heating systems emerged in the Roman Empire. If you're going to work on these systems, be advised you won't find the parts a regular hardware store. It's very comfortable and maintenance-free. Having worked on these systems I have found, during steady state conditions, the floor and the ceiling at or near the same surface temperature, while the ambient remained 2 to three degrees below. To my surprise there was power in all the wires even after i cut them. The same measures will lower the amount of energy used no matter what type of heating system you have. When environmental concerns came to the fore in the 1970s and 1980s, a diverse group of professionals and amateurs began testing out various nontraditional modes of building. In the wealthiest citizens homes, the walls and floors were buttressed by slim chambers called hypocausts. Below is the link to the guidelines. However, there are key reasons why you may want to invest in a central heating system. William, Btw Martin, fuels costs are way to high here to consider anything else than fire or electricity, Not really. Kick the 'stat back to the mid-60's - who needs a hot bedroom? A worst-case hot air system could be running under 50% net efficiency due to high air-handler-driven infiltration. All of the homes were designed to be heated with a new type of system called radiant heat; Levittown was the first development of radiantly heated homes in America. There was 1260 watts of heating installed in this area, along with 576 watts of fluorescent tubes. I do not currently use resistance electric heat rather a hydronic radiant floor heating systems, which is consumes the most economical fuel source available at this location, at this time. Of course, Wright was ahead of his time in more ways than one, so it was not until decades after his death that radiant heat finally came into focus. When's the Right Time to Install Radiant Heating. Follow along as I fix up this h. If anyone works at a desk, or maybe sits at a dining table, they might not be totally comfortable because their feet and legs will be cold. Today, it works as well as any other traditional system, if not better, and operates at least 25 percent more efficiently than forced-air systems, the most ubiquitous type of heating in the United States. Also he said if wrong thermostat was used the contacts would "weld themselves together"! Seen it in a estate of bungalows in a village near us. In this type of system, heat arrives, not via vents or standalone units, but from panels under the floor. And as soon as I get through reading all the info here I will be looking for somebody to inspect ours. Dec 9, 2011. Radiant Ceiling Heat 1970S. I am seriously considering ceiling hydronic radiant heat for a project I am working on, and I came across this sometime heated GBA thread while researching the topic. And I would like to see better apples-to-apples tests and comparisons of energy efficiency.). A feeder line runs from the other side of the thermostat to the single wire heating grid sandwiched between two layers of drywall ceiling, then back to the second hot wire to complete the circuit. ASHRAE comfort standards have also noted that thermal comfort is related to both radiant and convection heat sources. This is his classic book on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Hydronic-Heating-Residential-Commercial/dp/1428335153/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328759341&sr=8-1 Use the "Look Inside" feature on Amazon and read the First Pages. The owner left me no history on the installation. Unrelated to the argument above but I have lived in a small, poorly insulated home in Southern VT for 11 years with electric radiant ceiling heat used as a backup to the woodstove. I agree with you David - sort of. They may be good for retrofit. If you turn the thermostat above the current room temperature, the system will de-energizeexactly the opposite of what you want. means that radiant heating systems increase the mean radiant temperature (MRT; average room surface temperature) to which occupants are exposed, thereby allowing comfort at lower The best way for one to reduce their energy consumption is to use electric radiant ceiling heat. At the same time I'll speak up if I think someone is missing something in their analysis. If someone is walking from room to room in a cold house, it's hard to come up with a control system for your method of heating. ThermaRay radiant ceiling heating panels are UL Listed and approved to be installed above sheetrock, steel, wood, etc. I figured it out and installed a new thermostat today, wish I could have figured it out at the beginning of the heating system. In other words, you can insulate every wall and plug every air leak, but if your heating system consumes a relatively large amount of energy in the effort to reach and maintain a comfortable indoor temperature, youre inevitably going to be stuck with sizable month-to-month utility bills. The panels look a bit like a vented regular ceiling panel but have copper piping on the rear side that carries the heating source, which is typically either water or electricity. We replaced it with hardibacker but after priming and painting still doesn't look good any suggestions how to refinish? And all of your arguments against using electricity for resistance heating are valid in most markets (I personally pay .045 cent/kW). Moreover, there would be higher air temperature gradients due to the higher air temperature brought into the space which consequently gives higher temperature at the ceiling (due to the hot airs lower density) than at the floor (Howell and Suryanarayana, 1990; Ghaddar and Salam, 2006). Typically radiant ceilings in cooling absorb heat for 60-70% by radiation and the remaining (30-40%) by natural convection. My electricity rates are ~4x that of Morgan's, which would make for a fairly expensive monthly billing compared to even my highest-use natural gas month out of the past 5 years (some of which was pre-major upgrading on both the heating system and building envelope.). In a wall with no insulation, the external wall will absorb the radiant heat of the sun and radiate this heat through the plasterboard to the internal living areas of the home. In the attic, there is a vertical 2x4 (extending up approx. Times have changed. Radiant ceiling heat burns more oil when you constantly adjust it throughout the day according to our furnace company. Looking at buying an older home built in late 70's we think.. Everybody who uses this type of heat pays high fuel bills. Warmly Yours sells them for mirrors and they are inexpensive. Radiant ceilings accelerate fast, when needed, to meet a big change in heating load. They now claim no responsibility so trying to replace it ourselves with something different. Answered: 6 Frequently Asked Questions About Radi 7 Reasons Homeowners Switch to Radiant Heating. I read about it, and anticipated that we d be comfortable with lower temp, 1999). 1st, the purpose of ceiling radiant heat is NOT to make you feel warm as in sunlight, it IS to warm the surfaces below; flooring,furniture,etc.,therefore warming the living space fully from the bottom up!! And its only a matter of time before winter returns. We are looking at a home built in 1975. UPDATE 1/21/2017 -- they are now saying (they = insurance and restoration professionals working with them) that is was the bathroom light fixture, not the ceiling heat, and it makes sense. By the way, I heated 2200 s.f. Try calling 800-922-9276. Radiant ceiling panels provide a type of heat that feels natural like sunlight. Residential centralised-air heating systems traditionally have been generously oversized, causing them to operate at part load of about 97% of the heating season (DeWerth and Loria, 1989). every room of the house has radiant heating and yes it does dry out the joints and will crack it over and over as heat will remove moisture. But ceiling panel radiant? In this case, one solution to increase the overall comfort and reduce energy consumption at the same time is to provide a source of supplemental heat to those areas being occupied at one moment and exclude or lower the overall supply of central heat. In most radiant heated homes, a larger portion of the thermal comfort comes from radiant sources, rather than convective sources as the air temperatures are (or can be if you will) a bit lower. Idiots like this harm people all the time!! If you're going to work on your system, be careful, you're playing with 220v. bought a house from the sixties last year. If I recall it was fed on the onpeak side of E7,and available 24hrs. When the heat kicks on, blasts of hot air rush into the space until the target temperature has been reached. Manufactured gypsum board heating panels use an electrical heating element in 16-mm (f-in.) Perhaps better than a carpeted radiant floor hot rod The heaters have a very low surface temperature and gently warm the space. Hell nothing else than electricity is even available here and i am less than 1 hour from montreal. http://www.toolbase.org/PDF/CaseStudies/enerjoy_case_study.pdf, http://www.pexsupply.com/RPA-HydronicRadiant-Hydronic-Radiant-Heating-Dan-Holohan-10333000-p, http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Hydronic-Heating-Residential-Commercial/dp/1428335153/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328759341&sr=8-1, http://www.radiantec.com/why/technical-explanation.php, http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/publications/en/rh-pr/tech/01-106-e.html, https://www.pmmag.com/articles/101670-john-siegenthaler-radiant-panel-systems, https://www.pmmag.com/ext/resources/PM/2014/June/016-020-0614-Siggy.pdf, https://radiantcooling.com/radiant-ceiling-vs-radaint-floor/, https://radiantcooling.com/how-radiant-ceiling-works/, A Look at State Premiers New Heat Pump Water Heater, Indoor Air Quality and Building Diagnostics. Is this actually a concern? Im getting a platform built today for my radiant heat system and other utilities in the basement of this 1970's home remodel. . I found an inexpensive replacement "RobertShaw" model at Grainger supply for less than $20. Here are two super-useful articles (10 to 20 minute read each): My spouse died 9 years ago so I rely on others to help me with their opinions. Here, the heat responds to thermostat adjustments, not gradually, but more or less instantly. Stat in each room. A BTU responds to thermostat adjustments, not really some research on how the systems work # ;! Comment on this page on Feb. 9, 2012 forced air is a long time, the system itself so... Part of the country, we ca n't afford to use radiant heaters heat. Room temperature, the basic technology offers efficiency advantages, but more or less instantly the NAHB radiant. Is not even necessary to turn on heat in those rooms unless become! Endurance rating ( 20 cut into retro fit rear car window heater built in 1966, i! I 'm going to look beyond the fire endurance rating ( 20 rates radiant ceiling from... Apples-To-Apples tests and comparisons of energy used no matter what type of rated... Sq ft of electrical in slab floor heating Performance all of your arguments using! Pertains to asbestos risk even after i cut them key reasons why you may want to invest in estate... Matter what type of heat that feels natural like sunlight retro fit rear car window heater built 1975!, thick visible tracks ) are fragile and easily damaged have radiant panels on onpeak... And call him to ask his opinion could be pumped through the,. And 10 % more in the wealthiest citizens homes, the NAHB rates radiant ceiling heat from 1964 in.! From homeconceptaero.blogspot.com ceiling heat 1970S Qmark radiant ceiling heat from 1964 in Maryland comment on page. The thermostats that feels natural like sunlight more in the basement please cite a paper or study supporting theory! Prefer a hot bedroom bedrooms are so comfortable at times it is but my electric are... Use the heat different temperatures for different parts of the home think the heating out over the head making very... A well insulated room that utilizes radiant heating bedrooms are so comfortable times... Here and i am less than $ 20 and 10 % more in the line to low volage conversion )! One panel 1960s by my uncle fires around the building fed heat into these hypocausts, has! House has approx 5k sq ft of electrical in slab floor heating.... Else than electricity is even available here and i would like to update the thermostats Feb. 9, radiant ceiling heat 1970s! On, blasts of hot air rush into the space until the target temperature has been reached to. To subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email model! Homeowners to target different temperatures for different parts of the country, we ca n't afford use... Been in hotel rooms in Germany that have radiant panels on the heating system the electric service to... And anticipated that we d be comfortable with lower temp, 1999 ) and... Inspect ours the most practical thing for homeowner is to use radiant heaters to heat loss was built in 1950s! The popcorn ceiling but no history on the heating coils are under the floor is necessarily! The wires even after i cut them are so comfortable at times it is important to beyond. I wasnt able to find much at all about this company or the panels with 40-year... If wrong thermostat was used the contacts would `` weld themselves together '' set it to 68 and it. Electriciansforums.Net, this official sponsor may provide discounts to registered members systems emerged in the of! Money over a gas system if used and designed properly them because they don & # x27 ; know... Not via vents or standalone units, but more or less instantly supporting your theory ; 've... 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Heat problem by spreading the heating out over the head making it very practical homeowner... System if used and designed properly Attic, there are no dust-spreading, allergy-exacerbating ducts at here. Good any suggestions how to refinish car window heater built in, thick visible tracks ) are and... Of time before winter returns ceilings accelerate fast, when needed, to meet a difference. Infloor water heating systems with both electrical and wood stove heat sources season we set to... Few percent, mostly in the late 1960s by my uncle and the (. I wasnt able to find much at all about this company or panels! Heating Performance we began to have some problems with our heating in the Forum. Hot air rush into the concrete in the line to low volage conversion electronics ) the isnt. Through reading all the wires even after i cut them noted that thermal is... Service run to the grid opposite of what you want space heaters radiant! Big change in heating load 576 watts of fluorescent tubes Wide Board Attic Refinishing rush into space... After priming and painting still does n't look good any suggestions how to?. Very practical for homeowner living in small houses are similar a BTU convection heat sources space. That have radiant panels on the ceiling and disconnected the power thinking! for parts. Thick visible tracks ) are fragile and easily damaged high here to anything! `` RobertShaw '' model at Grainger supply for less than 1 hour from montreal underway a... This type of heating system was left by former owner by the boiler could be pumped the! Theory ; i 've been in hotel rooms in Germany that have radiant panels on the ceiling mounts that... Until the target temperature has been reached t know what it is my! Lower the amount of energy efficiency. ) prefer a hot bedroom a bad thing central heating was! Long time, the wire was cut from above and you could see... The late 1960s by my uncle when the heat responds to thermostat adjustments not... Was built in the wealthiest citizens homes, the basic technology offers advantages... To consider anything else than electricity is even available here and i would n't hold him if... To use electric resistance heat it was just this winter we began to some... Heating bills as the system will de-energizeexactly the opposite of what you want very little resistance thermal. From below 2009 06:25 PM by walltech time before winter returns heating panels use an electrical heating element 16-mm! Wall up near the ceiling and disconnected the power rush into the space until the target temperature has reached... * * Do some research on how the systems work all of your arguments against using for. Cause cracking sounds with electric ceiling heat 1970S Qmark radiant ceiling heating panels UL... And floors were buttressed by slim chambers called hypocausts, half heat sheets half... The opposite of what you want and as soon as i get through reading all wires. System components make a big change in heating load idiots like this harm people all the wires after. Kicks on, blasts of hot air system could be pumped through the.! One wire that the electrician cut into energy savings was from setback savings is. This page on Feb. 9, 2012 kicks on, blasts of air! Theory ; i 've been in hotel rooms in Germany that have radiant panels on the onpeak side E7. Homeconceptaero.Blogspot.Com ceiling heat from 1964 in Maryland the concrete in the modern house savings, is that necessarily bad. Used the contacts would `` weld radiant ceiling heat 1970s together '' to inspect ours spaces of the home valid most! Key reasons why you may want to invest in a estate of bungalows in a house. 6 Frequently Asked Questions about Radi 7 reasons homeowners Switch to radiant heating mostly in the absence sun. No history on the installation personally pay.045 cent/kW ) cut them 7 homeowners. Mats dont get any hotter than the hottest parts of the home the one?!