And why aren't there miracle claims of people spontaneously generating electricity? The video of the miracle itself doesn't show much, and seems to show potentially abusive behavior of people lifting her out the chair, and supporting her as she attempts to walk in a far from medically controlled environment. Scott Rae: Here, here. It may not be a dramatic sign or wonder, but it's still an answer to prayer. Visit Pure Flix for access to thousands of faith and family friendly movies and TV shows. Then, on Pentecost Sunday, two of Synders friends read her letters from those praying for her. It involves Barbara Snyder and took place nearly 30 years ago. But it's a wonderful volume. Here I look into the papers he references in response. It also calls into question the motives of God -- God is more concerned to give you a pool table than to cure leukemia in children or heart defects or nearly anything else. -pomelo- 9 mo. Barbara Rook "Babs" Snyder is an American academic and president of the Association of American Universities. At least there is documentation published at https://seangeorge.com.au/my-story/medical-details/. If that agent were doing these kinds of actions we would expect to see a bigger effect, or that agent is being capricious. If something is real, when we can more carefully observe it, it becomes easier to see not harder. Barbara began her academic career as an assistant professor at Case Western Reserves School of Law, then joined the faculty of Moritz College of Law at The Ohio State University. Some initial thoughts Time stamp 4:47 James is right that the evidence on a lot of these cases is really really bad. But Greg Spencer had been going blind due to macular degeneration. it can be also given as a nice gift to your friends, relatives, boyfriend or girlfriend. That is the definition of supernatural. People casually talk about God helping to find their car keys or help their sportsing team win, which are not miraculous but imply the intervention of the agent and thus fall under the same umbrella. But in this case, he had to have the medical documentation be he'd been on disability. I went over her solutions when she did , Skepticism and Dubious Medical Procedures. Scott Rae: Because I mean by any medical definition she had died. The same thing occurs with UFO claims, homeopathy studies, and psychic abilities. If you make such a claim, and that higher-than-average standard is not met, then you cannot be confident in that claim. So as you've cataloged these different stories and different accounts, what's been the sort of the breath of the geography that's been involved? The AAUs members include such such profound challenges across so many fronts, I felt an obligation to answer In response, Snyder said, "I am proud to be president of Case Western Reserve and intend to continue in this role for many years to come. claims with no available data, so one can't investigate, so one shouldn't believe it, claims with available data, where one can investigate, and it's shown that the evidence doesn't support the claim, so one shouldn't believe it, establish base-rates for the natural recoveries, evaluate alternative explanations -- and their prior probabilities, include both the positive and negative outcomes of the treatment, have good controls and experimental design to remove confounders. Now, I know you can read headlines so you know this was a study of proximal intercessory prayer, but the point is even if you assess the details of the study divorced from knowledge of what the intervention is, it should be obvious that this study tells us nothing. Click here to subscribe to the Charisma News newsletter. Edwin Booth, perhaps unfairly known today as the brother of assassin John Wilkes Booth, was once upon a time . This is incredibly compelling stuff. Somebody we know, actually there were two people we know, who are witnesses of that one. She has extensive experience in reinforcing Case Western Reserves There's a long list of reasons for this poorly understood condition. Sometimes there really isn't enough available evidence to substantiate a claim. Read Barbara's Blog for blog posts and speeches from the Presidenton prominent and emerging issues facing research universities and the broader higher education community. This is special pleading -- wanting to hold their claims to a lower standard than other claims. And then I said "In Jesus's name, Amen" and so we moved on. He had asthma all his life. My oldest grandson loves to run and is always racing ahead, scampering up hills and sliding down ravines faster than the rest. I am delighted that the board selected Barbara to lead AAU The latter has more eyewitness testimony than we have for Barbara Snyder. Well I shouldn't say everybody, but lots of people have love stories. Meanwhile, her muscles were atrophied. He became a Christian in 1981 shortly after he decided to investigate Jesus . And the person came back after prayer and a number of other cases. Here is her story. A bit of Bible, A bit of Life, A bit of Politics, Barbara Snyders healing from MS shockeddoctors, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2023/02/98-miraculous-healing-of-3-month-old-baby.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/forgiving-to-forget-1.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/13mysteryguard.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/dreams-and-visions-1.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/meekinheritanceworking-1.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/bringing-the-pain-in-prayer-1.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/whychristmasfellondec25.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/wjinterview.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/spiritual-warfare-1.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/kate-fisherinterview.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/podcast-5-what-really-sunk-peter-1.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/4-edited-you-are-not-a-mistakeaud.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/3authorityopentheword.mp3. The 1974 measurement is 20/100 compared to legally blind at 20/200 (uncorrected) which is still quite poor and far from being "restored", but still a large improvement from her measured 7/200 mentioned earlier. administrators, including President Snyder herself. What surprised you? What would happen if two people out in space a few meters apart, abandoned by their spacecraft, decided to wait until gravity pulled them together? "It was really the miracle of the resurrection and the historical evidence for that that ended up bringing me to faith many years ago," Strobel told Pure Flix Insider and "The Billy Hallowell Podcast." Given the number of miracle claims, and the bold claims of Christians throughout these videos, and the proliferation of cameras in people's pockets, there should be thousands of convincing videos of miracles. At the beginning I didn't find all that. This one actually is, I think this one is not in the book because I came across this afterwards. He was 2200 in one eye and 2400 in the other and had already been through training for the blind. It's not just a few people. Scott Rae: Yeah, see that's the big miracle that's coming. This kind of phrasing is trying to stop people from being skeptical of their claims (and only their claims). It's not just about the priors, it's the fact that to be consistent, once you raise your prior for one sort of claim you're doing it for many others -- many claims that you probably don't want to accept. He ended up reading and it led him into a life of scholarship. Only 15 percent according to the polling that I did believe that miracles cannot happen today," Strobel said. Studies of distant intercessory prayer have been essentially negative we see the typical random scatter of results expected of an ineffective treatment, with no consistent pattern of positive results, and with the best studies being negative. James rightly points out that the most these people ever seem to provide is: The timeline definitely matters, especially if you're claiming a causal relationship. Snyder ended up in hospice care with a no-resuscitation order; she was nearly blind, her hands and body were curled and she had a tube in her throat to help her breath as well as a tube in her stomach to ensure proper nourishment. In all of human history there has never been one single credible and fully verified miracle cure. There was no blinding or control group so everyone in the study, subjects and experimenters, knew that every subject was getting the treatment. It's not the consummation. The story is that this person had a condition where they couldn't eat normally, were fed with a tube, and this persisted for 16 years. Bizarrely, her calves were inflated and her once-atrophied muscles worked again and thats not all. A nice illustration of Even Miracles Take A Little Time-the miracle. Also, this condition is known to come and go in some patients. Really? I asked. It doesn't mean to stop praying for healing. Synder's miraculous healing, which unfolded more than 30 years ago, was apparently so shocking that even her doctors have written about her seemingly impossible medical turnaround. These steps are in place to get at the truth, not to specifically put up barriers to rule out miracles. I confess I haven't made it through all 1000 pages. randomized controlled studies, well considered controls, etc) to avoid these confounders. But there, the book is just full, both volumes, full of these remarkable stories like this. And in each case, it's a witness to God's Glory where God gives grace to overcome in different kinds of situations. You wont want to miss Scotts interview with Dr. Craig Keener, renowned New Testament scholar, who has done in depth research on miracles today. Lee Strobels Miracles talk (25 minute segment), Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Proximal Intercessory Prayer (STEPP) on Auditory and Visual Impairments in Rural Mozambique, In conversation with Digital Gnosis (Nathan Ormond), Street Epistemology with Eddie (Deep Discussions), Thoughts on the Randal Rauser vs. "Barbara Snyder was diagnosed at the Mayo Clinic with multiple sclerosis. 5 John Wilkes Booth's Brother and Abe Lincoln's Son . 1) A young soldier loses a limb in a battle and the limb is destroyed. To contact us or to submit an article, click here. This is the reason the specifics matter. James: can we just make it a thing to always mention that like although it's not that popular these days that deism or non-interventionist form of theism are a thing like you can totally believe in god and still not be okay with miracles? Sean McDowell, Timothy Pickavance, Scott RaeFebruary 27, 2023, Sean McDowell, Scott RaeFebruary 16, 2023, Sean McDowell, Scott RaeFebruary 09, 2023. In my discussion with Jonathan McLatchie on the Still Unbelievable podcast, I said that there hasnt been a verified miracle claim even since Humes essay on miracles. Now of course, after six minutes with no oxygen you have irreparable brain damage starting in, but Terese had no brain damage. What is missing are the controls -- how often does the "treatment" happen and there is no effect, and how often is there an effect but no treatment. Its consultants have assisted with the recruitment of multiple senior CWRU Strobel said. It is quite clear that once you allow one miraculous healing in, using evidence of just one person, then one has to let in a whole host of others. Bizarrely, her calves were inflated and her once-atrophied muscles worked againand that's not all. False reporting? "[5], In 2011, Cleveland.com reported Barbara R. Snyder's total compensation for the year of 2009 was $778,874.[6]. And so I guess my first question is, what motivated you to undertake that because your field has been pretty technical New Testament studies. I think, however, there is a selection bias here -- those people who have theological reasons to expect healings are more likely to broadcast what they consider to be healing events, while others for the same sorts of events will prefer more modest interpretations. Strobel, 66, is a former investigative journalist with the Chicago Tribune. This was in 1981 that this happened. (Read also:Are the Biblical End Times upon us? That's for when the Lord returns. This doesn't affect the doctor reports, but the personal reports. 2023 Robert L. White All Rights Reserved. I went over her solutions when she did , Skepticism and Dubious Medical Procedures. Craig thanks so much for being with us. And so that's kind of what prompted me to investigate this issue.. When I've heard the murderer analogy it is to argue against Hume's uniform human experience against miracles, because someone could argue for the murderer by claiming it is against his uniform experience to murder someone -- he's never murdered anyone before. But again, it's a sign. And she'd also gone blind. This pretty much summarizes the problems with this study. But God often heals us here and yet when he does it we don't always recognize that it is God because of our world view here. It is quite clear that once you allow one miraculous healing in, using evidence of just one person, then one has to let in a whole host of others. Can we come to any agreement here? READ ALSO: Are the Biblical End Times Upon Us? Secondly we're talking about these things objectively, put yourself in situations where you can have experiential knowledge: pray for sick people that you know they would not be healed unless God showed up. A lot of accounts have been published from Asia. These responses just seem so, I don't know, juvenile to me like it's like they haven't thought about these issues. So she basically pulls the tube out of her throat, says, Go find my parents [and] jumps out of bed.. I had been an Atheist before my conversion. I misspoke in the episode for the next one, thinking the name was Barbara Snyder, but Barbara's case is an MS case. Craig Keener: Yes. In the comment thread of my response, Caleb J writes. Strobel went on to explain that he interviewed skeptics and believers, alike, and included their perspectives in The Case for Miracles. At the end of the project, Strobel said he was shocked to learn that miracles are not only common, but also well-documented. At this point anyone with any reasonable familiarity with how to assess the quality of medical studies should see that this is a worthless study. I know we, we were really, really praying for him. Christians) than other groups. It just really annoys me this is always conflated. It is interesting the Elijah seems to understand that we need evidence to believe a claim, that we need to weigh alternative hypotheses, but he seems to have no idea what a controlled study is or why it is necessary. This is like the difference between theists asking skeptics to explain how the disciples ate fish with Jesus, when in reality what we have to explain is that we have a text that has a story where the disciples ate fish with Jesus. Subsequent medical records document repeated substantial improvement. Could you imagine a similar claim written about, say, a homeopathic remedy for cancer? Well, yeah but could we be a bit more specific? She's on her deathbed," Strobel explained. The outcome was either a change in vision or hearing. But theists show no interest in doing this, they're satisfied with the first bad study that confirms what they already believe. Craig Keener: Thanks so much for having me Scott. For 15 years she had been going downhill. Feel free to reach out if you want more specifics on a given quote or study. Craig Keener: Yeah, and by the time Yeah and eventually it was over a 1000. And then some months later war came to her hometown in [inaudible] and she had to flee again. It's always possible to ask for more (Couldn't more doctors have seen it? I cook breakfast sandwich and lunch sandwichs I'm also a cashier. credentials as both a highly regarded research institution and as a place where A legal scholar, Snyder was the first woman to serve as the Case Western's president. My initial thought was that , A physics problem from a practice AP test came to my attention, when my daughter was in AP physics this past spring. We're all aware of suffering in the world, but miracles is a happy topic. The trick is you have to dig a lot to get the actual facts of the matter, they don't typically present these to you like "here's the facts, and this is why we think it is a miracle" it's "the guy's intestine regrew" but that's not an established fact at all that's their interpretation of a certain set of facts. Scott Rae: Yeah. Which I agree with, at least technically. in social ethics from the University of Southern California, a Th.M. Subjects reported impaired vision or hearing at the beginning of the study and were tested with standard vision or audiology tests before and after treatment. Just, was it last night I think, we were talking and David Dockery was sharing about Grant Osbourne, a scholar friend of ours who passed away just this past month after an amazing career of scholarship, but when he was young he had asthma. By signing up to the Blaze News newsletter you agree to receive electronic communications from Blaze Media that may sometimes include advertisements or sponsored content. Elijah: they can verify that before and afterwards and i'm not sure it's rational to call those uh uh just coincidences like you're assuming some type of causality there um and i i think if you even allow for the possibility of something like the christian god to exist then um you've got to take seriously that it could be his action and then make an inference to the best explanation and where i think the voice of science comes in the best is in eliminating hypotheses not necessarily proving that's his voice and so you can go back and go well there's seven different hypotheses science can help us before eliminating some and then we've got two or three and we've got to critically think and go what do i think's most likely the case and i think that's the human situation and we make that call all the time we make it in court. None of us would say that all of those are authentic, but still we're talking about an awful lot of stories. Join us for this fascinating discussion of miracles today. Nine out of ten with prayer is the meaning of replicable, so I don't know what he really is thinking when he says miracles are not replicable. Scott Rae: Right. If miracles are real then these steps -- while possibly inconvenient -- would be easy to demonstrate. God could choose methods that are not so easily confused with memory biases, measurement errors, and other distortions and it is suspicious that he doesn't operate that way. I had to work harder to get stuff from Latin America because a lot of it's in Spanish. Shermer: well the counterfactual what about the christian families who pray for their loved one who's dying from cancer and they just die nothing happens from the prayer that happens all the time. Barbara Snyder (Barbara Cummiskey Snyder) healed from multiple sclerosis. Stanford and Johns Hopkins University. Facebook gives people the power. So we understand it's not, it's not saying that somebody has lack of faith. Bad Apologetics Ep 20 - Miracles & even MORE even NEWER Resurrection evidence, Unbelievable? I want to refer our listeners to your two volume series on miracles. Prior to that, she served as president of Case Western Reserve University from 2007 to 2020, where she encouraged interdisciplinary excellence, catalyzed institutional collaboration, and reinvigorated alumni engagement and fundraising. This is trying to have your cake and eat it too. James: Shermer's essential point is how do you distinguish charlatans from real miracles and the answer is well you weigh up the evidence and you look at the best explanation. Couldn't the medical records have been earlier?) He encountered scores of healings and other claims of the miraculous along the way, but there was one case in particular that truly blew his mind: the case of Barbara Snyder. Join Facebook to connect with Barbara Snyder and others you may know. Scott Rae: I'd say that's quite a footnote! And as a Christian I naturally did believe in miracles. We have to have miracles. Craig Keener: In Christian circles it's been received really, really well. Counter Apologist Discussion, I highly recommend starting with this since it delves into at least three of the sources I discussed. We really appreciate your taking the time to come be on the podcast with us. Her energy, integrity, and powerful commitment to collaboration have led to progress and partnerships that would have been unimaginable when she first arrived.. So even when, you know it doesn't happen to all of us. Barbara (Burns) Snyder, age 92, of Elmira, NY, passed away Friday, November 18, 2022 at her home. She said she'd been curled up like a pretzel. This effect has been seen a lot, but a good example is the Rendelsham Forest UFO sighting where there is a big difference between the original reports and the later reports or the Barney and Betty Hill case of alien abduction where one can track the contamination of the story to popular media depictions of aliens. You're an expert on the life and teachings of Paul. Taking the story as the evidence is problematic. Above all, Max underscores, "Getting unstuck means getting excited about getting out.". So for example, if I just say oh well there was spontaneous remission you could say that's implausible given our medical knowledge but it's going to be very hard to establish that that's actually like impossible, to definitively rule it out and so the question of which is a more plausible explanation and not can you rule it out. What would happen if two people out in space a few meters apart, abandoned by their spacecraft, decided to wait until gravity pulled them together? Is it a miracle? In secular circles, well on the Internet at least, Atheists came out with critiques of it right away. Certainly, Jesus gave a bright future to Barbara Snyder in 1981. But I think there's a good representative sample. James is right that the evidence on a lot of these cases is really really bad. But all of us are called to overcome. The primary studies here are Case Studies, which are some of the lowest and least informative types of studies in medicine (see https://guides.library.stonybrook.edu/evidence-based-medicine/levels_of_evidence) with Meta-studies, Systematic reviews, and Randomized Controlled Studies being the most effective forms. Nathan's point here is interesting, especially in light of the idea that the murderer example is not being used in the right place, that Elijah has this set of standard "tools" that he pulls out but doesn't seem to understand their use or limitations and is prone to misapply them. Is it possible that there was MS and something else, in which case looking for a full recovery from MS is misdirected? #unbelievable Could it be an illusion? In his book, The Case for Miracles, evangelist Lee Strobel cites the miraculous healing of Barbara Snyder that took place nearly 30 years ago. The latest breaking Christian news you need to know about as soon as it happens. The fact that they can only produce two or three, with serious procedural and reporting issues, is strong evidence that this effect is non-existent. Now normally somebody's healed, they're still gonna have, their muscles are still going to be atrophied if they've been unable to walk for a long time. "Barbara Snyder was diagnosed at the Mayo Clinic with multiple sclerosis. Of course, it's possible her sight was perfect and declined in the 2 years between the "healing" and the measurement which would call into question the miraculous nature. I want our listeners to be totally aware, Craig Keener, just the two volume entitled Miracles. There is nothing even close to an arm growing back. It is a notable pattern for something to become less observable to more carefully you're able to observe it. What are some of the things that just sort of blew your mind that you researched, heard about, read about, came into first hand contact with as you explored this subject. It's here for completeness, even though there isn't much more we can say. Charisma News - Informing believers with news from a Spirit-filled perspective, The Real-Life Miracle That Absolutely Shocked This Atheist-Turned-Evangelist, Jesus performed the miracles described in the Gospels, Atheist-Turned-Apologist Lee Strobel Offers Clear Evidence for the Supernatural, Atheist-Turned-Apologist: I Would Have Smirked That Easter Falls on April Fools' Day, Click here to subscribe to the Charisma News newsletter. Barbara had a very severe case of multiple sclerosis. This miracle claim never came up in the episode. Keener: what is specific about that data that suggests it isn't just a fluke you know one of those one in a million things that just happens sometimes yeah anomalies occur so it's important to look for an accumulation of anomalies so you don't just have what could be a coincidence. Finally, this gripe about a naturalistic bias is completely misguided. But even with miracles, life expectancy is higher here than in Africa. It's not biased to be skeptical. This one is obviously ludicrous, but I think undermines the theists claims quite a lot. It really doesnt matter what the treatment is or how plausible it is you simply cannot draw any meaningful conclusion from 24 self-selected subjects with no controls and no blinding. To connect with Barbara Snyder was diagnosed at the beginning I did believe in miracles steps -- while inconvenient... Limb in a battle and the limb is destroyed gift to your volume... 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